Would like a second ab gun, but what kind ?

S

Skanerost

Guest
Hi all,

New on this airbrushing and i guess i know the answer, but ill go ahead.

I have a Iwata Eclipse HP-CS i really like it, no i love it. However i would like a companion for this one, i feel like i need to go really close to a image to get super thin lines.

The needle is 0.3 if im not mistaken and i would like one smaller, so what gun would you recommend ? I would prefer another Iwata. But surely a Harder and Steenbeck would also be a valid one ?

Anyways any info on topic would be greatly appreciated,

Thanks in advance
 
No matter what airbrush you have, you will always have to get really close to get thinner lines. An airbrush like a Micron will help you achieve thinner lines a little easier, but it really comes down to your own ability. There are a ton of artists on here who could get better detail with your HP-CS than I could with the best micron.

Having said that, a smaller nozzle can help, so I might look in to the Badger Krome with the .2, or the H&S Evolution with the .15 set up, but don't expect to see a miraculous transformation. If you get to the point where you can get those super fine details with your Iwata, then when you grab that smaller set up, you would probably notice the difference more.

For me, it comes down to how easy I can get parts. One hobby shop in town carries Badgers, and another has Iwatas, so I tend to stick to those two brands, but I have heard a lot of good things about H&S too...
 
I agree with foreveryoung in the aspect that it wont matter if you have the best brush on the market or not if you don't have the control you still may not be able to perform those super fine details that others do. It all boils down to what you can afford and how well you get comfortable with it. In the Iwatta world the Micron is the cream of the crop, Badger right now seems to be the "Krome", and Harder & Steenbeck is the Infinity. With that being said I personally use the Badger Velocity, the Krome is essentially a velocity pimped out a bit but "IN MY OPINION" it isn't worth the difference in price plus almost every supplier is SOLD OUT. I had to wait 2 months to get a new .21 nozzle (which is the same as the Krome and all renegade models and is smaller than a grain of rice) but the velocity performs flawlessly for ME. Iwata parts are very expensive also H&S as well, so all brands and models have their issues so it is a matter of what you want and are comfortable with.
 
The CS is a .35 drop in nozzle and the needle is not as tapered as the HP-C+ or HP-CH. I have both as well as a CS and a Micron. I have actually set my CH up with the .2 set up which is dubbed the poor mans micron. If you like iwata go with a HP-C+, you will be amazed how different it sprays than the CS and how detailed a .3 in that can go. It has a very finely tapered needle allowing for finer control .


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I will ponder this and get back with more detailed response later its just i hopped in to get flash drive and i have to go back out into the cold fall night to staples I say badger krome or if you want to spend the cash micron cmsb is the best one out there a clean and properly working krome will do almost the same as the micron i believe theirs a long thread comparing the both. good part of the krome is you can get a full set of etac efx and a bunch of com art and have cash left over. theirs a thread i did called micro feathers there not realy micro i belive i used the micron but mine is slightly damaged the krome does the same
 
I have the HP-CS and love, love, love it. I wouldn't trade it for anything! I would love to add the micron alongside it though. All the greats I admire use it, and I think it would help me get closer (well relatively Lol) to their level. But I'd have to get a mortgage to buy one, so I'm just seeing how far my trusty HP-CS can take me.
 
Squishy, the way you are doing it is probably better for over all control. Myself I just work so darn much, that I tried to buy control, and it works to a point. But no where near as well as it will when I gain complete control of the micron and how to properly reduce paint for it.


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squishy one day you will get a micron and your mind will be blown away ,,,your at the top of the list if i hit lotto
Awwwww thanks ferret, and when I win big on the lotto I'll buy your landlady's house and then evict her lol.

Squishy, the way you are doing it is probably better for over all control. Myself I just work so darn much, that I tried to buy control, and it works to a point. But no where near as well as it will when I gain complete control of the micron and how to properly reduce paint for it.


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It looks like you already have control to me :)
 
Just as stated by others, with enough practice, good detail can be done with any decent airbrush. I can pull very thin lines with my Badger Patriot with the .75 needle, is it as easy as doing it with a smaller needle, No. Just be aware that smaller nozzles require more reduction, it can be frustrating getting the ratio of reducer/paint. You will probably get Spidering(too thin) or Sputtering(too thick) for a while until you get used to it. They also work better with smaller pigment grinds(Wicked Detail/Createx Illustration), ETAC(PS/EFX).

From the brushes I own...I would suggest

Badger Krome
Pros:
Great bang for the buck(two needle nozzle sets)(As Shadow said, the Velocity is cheaper and only varies slightly from the Krome)
Parts are cheap
Is capable of great detail

Cons:
Small nozzle head assembly parts, threads on the needle cap/ hold down ring are small. I stripped the threads on my .3 needle cap.
Trigger rocker is a bitch the first few times you take it apart, but I'm used to it now. I dropped it the first time doing maintenance and almost lost it.

Harder & Steenbeck Infinity

Pros:
Detail is great, it is very capable with the right reductions.
Adjustable tension for air valve(factory setting was fine, but i softened it a bit more). Needle tension is also accessible without taking off the handle.
Easiest to swap out needles/head assembly.

Cons:
Price - 2 in 1 is about $300, compared to Krome @ around $125 or so
Parts are about twice as much as the Krome. $18 for nozzle as apposed to Krome being around $9-10.
 
I agree with wmlepage and the HP-C+ which has a 0.3mm setup but you can convert it to a 0.2mm in the future if you wanted.

If you can afford it go for a Micron, the CM-SB has a 0.18mm set up or the CM-C or CM-C+ has a 0.23mm (you can also get a CM-C+ 0.18mm).
I have an Olympus Micron 0.23mm and it's great for detail but parts are much harder to find than Iwata parts.

I had a H&S Ultra as my first airbrush and it put me off H&S airbrushes completely, I really didn't like the trigger action and it started to stick. As you already have an HP-CS you will be used to the Iwata trigger action and I'd stay with that if I was you.

I've never used a Badger Krome but I do have a Badger Sotar 20/20 which is similar but more like a Micron because you can remove the whole head for cleaning. It's a very good airbrush although quite fussy, you have to get the paint reduction right.

My advice is either the HP-C+ 0.3mm (HP-B+ 0.2mm) which can be converted to 0.2mm later (I have an HP-SB+ 0.2mm) or a Micron depending on your budget and the cost of replacement parts.
Good luck
Cheers Mel
 
I totally agree with Melbee( except the H&S never tried one) But will add that the CH with the .2 is the bomb
PS Sotar parts are REALLY expensive also
 
I have many brushes and like everyone says its all down to preference. I do prefer my Iwata HP-B+ .20 but I can get great detail with my .38 Paasche Talon, I also have a Sotar which gets great detail but is a bit finiky with the paint mix like Mel said. Micron's are super to paint with and I have the side feed on order. As I use etac' efx, I know the correct reductions for it to work so I have trouble free painting. Just another couple of choices to consider.

Lee
 
Thanks all, gonna have a closer look on the Micron to be honest.

Biggest issue at the moment would be when doing fine details, i guess a new gun might not be the solution.

But what happens is, i lower the pressure to aprox 15 psi to get some control but usually it clogs and i get stuck with a blob shooting out and destroying my work ... thats a bit annoying !
Maybe im doing it wrong, to thick paint to low pressure i just dont know.
 
etac efx or com art would be a good solution I am going to start another light house tonight if i can be left alone to work and stop running around spending money i dont have you can check out the flag in the photo its about half inch by 3\8ths i plan to just mask the flag area and free hand the stripes for the stars i think il try poking holes in the print for the starsbut the blue area is a quarter inch if not smaller il try it with the micron as for fine white lines i prefer only etac efx or slightly reduced spektra tex
 
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If you want to run 15 psi of detail, you need to reduce the paint more, keep reducing until it flows the way you want at that pressure. This even happens to my micron if I don't reduce enough.


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If you want to run 15 psi of detail, you need to reduce the paint more, keep reducing until it flows the way you want at that pressure. This even happens to my micron if I don't reduce enough.


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Well that sounds reasonable, however i feel that if i get it thinner there is a risk of "flowers" runs a dot with legs :) But i guess thats practice and control missing for me, ill get at it again :)

@denstore you are correct at your guess ;)
 
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