Illustration Colors problems..

[Simon]

Hey boys and girls! I JUST received my set of illustration colors (createx), so i was kinda excited to try it on since i would be able to erase and scratch compared to wicked or auto-air. To be honest, i just tried the black out of the bottle and the colbalt blue. Damn i was grainy. Then i reduced 1:1 and a lil' bit more. First thing i noticed, it sprays "grainy" like crazy again. From 20psi to 60psi.. Same thing! The cobalt blue was a lil' better but still, not impressed at all.
I reduced it with the High Performance reducer from createx, so could it be the problem? It the first time i try this reducer.. Dunno what could be wrong. First time i had this issue in the last.. Well 10yrs?
Anyway.. Hope you can help me on this one, thanks!

 

[grantmartin850]

Sorry Simon I can't help you much here because I have never used the createx illustration line. However, I do remember reading on other posts that they are a bit grainer. Maybe post a picture of what you are experiencing because I know that there are many that use them on this forum and they will be able to provide you some better guidance

 

[MeeshellMP]

Havent had time to use them yet. Hoping this week. Cant help ya on this one

 

[jagardn]

I've had that problem with HP reducer. Did it make the pigments get chunky in the cup?
I've had it happen to black and moss green. I generally use mostly 4011 reducer and only add a drop or two of 4012(HP) because of this problem.

Edit: my paints are a few years old, so I don't know if that's part of my problem. It definitely doesn't happen consistently though.

 

[Simon]

I've had that problem with HP reducer. Did it make the pigments get chunky in the cup?
I've had it happen to black and moss green. I generally use mostly 4011 reducer and only add a drop or two of 4012(HP) because of this problem.
Edit: my paints are a few years old, so I don't know if that's part of my problem. It definitely doesn't happen consistently though.

Thx jagardn, i'll try another brand of reducer... Hope its only this that causing the grainy effect. I passed the last 2hrs trying to fix this and its seems that all my friggin' paint does it from AA to Wicked and Golden ( this one is kinda old tho) .. But illustration is the worst. My AB is clean like a new one, just got a brand new needle.. and its sprays like sh**! Maybe there's a small crack on the tip of my nozzle that i can't see from naked eye, but still, i was careful with it. I love airbrushing.. But sometimes, it is a real pain you know where!

 

[jagardn]

Thx jagardn, i'll try another brand of reducer... Hope its only this that causing the grainy effect. I passed the last 2hrs trying to fix this and its seems that all my friggin' paint does it from AA to Wicked and Golden ( this one is kinda old tho) .. But illustration is the worst. My AB is clean like a new one, just got a brand new needle.. and its sprays like sh**! Maybe there's a small crack on the tip of my nozzle that i can't see from naked eye, but still, i was careful with it. I love airbrushing.. But sometimes, it is a real pain you know where!

If it's happening with all paints, I'd say you have a brush or maintenance problem. That's why I have like a dozen airbrushes.
That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Simon]

If it's happening with all paints, I'd say you have a brush or maintenance problem. That's why I have like a dozen airbrushes.
That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it.

Hehe! I'll re-clean it again tomorrow with my strongest thinner i have at home. If only i had the money to buy myself other AB, i would buy a tons of them. I have an infinity 2in1.. Go i love the feel of it. I tried the Eclipse.. but it taking dust on my shelf a week after i bought it. I think it will be time to give it a second chance...

 

[jagardn]

Both the eclipse and the infinity are great brushes. If maintained properly, they will both treat you well.

 

[Simon]

Both the eclipse and the infinity are great brushes. If maintained properly, they will both treat you well.

Yeah that i know for sure with the infinity. Got it for 4-5yrs now and it works lika charm. So probably the issue i have is caused by the HP reducer. Just looked on the net and a lot of people having problems with it. I'll check for other brands this weekend or just go back the the regular createx reducer. As for the Ecplise, i remember having issues with the trigger not coming back when i pulled it. I think i tightened the needle screw a lil' too tight so it affect the needle/trigger.. compare to the infinity taht does no effect at all on them.

 

[AndreZA]

I'm still looking for the paint that sprays perfect straight out of the bottle at low pressure. I don't even consider 1:1 to be reduction. Atleast 1:5 (paint:reducer). And apparently it is better to let the mixture stand a for a few minutes so that they can interact. That is what is keeping me away from Createx prudcts. I want to paint now, not wait 5 minutes. Also they say put the reducer in the cup first before the paint.

 

[basepaint]

I too have had it clump the paint (really bad with golden black) but found if I use water to reduce it it sprays fine,also you might try com-art It's a little more forgiving

 

[jagardn]

I'm still looking for the paint that sprays perfect straight out of the bottle at low pressure. I don't even consider 1:1 to be reduction. Atleast 1:5 (paint:reducer). And apparently it is better to let the mixture stand a for a few minutes so that they can interact. That is what is keeping me away from Createx prudcts. I want to paint now, not wait 5 minutes. Also they say put the reducer in the cup first before the paint.

The 5-10 minute "cook" applies to the HP reducer only. I personally think that the clumping problem is from high reduction and it melts the pigment and causes them to stick together. Then again, like you, I over reduce. I've never seen the problem happen with 4011 reducer and it also can be used right away.

 

[Squishy]

While I don't use createx illustration, I do use createx Wicked, and the W500 (which is the same as the 4012) and it lays on as smooth as satin. I'm too impatient to wait for the "cooking" time too, and so never bother, though I have heard that is supposed to help.

The Wicked is an all rounder for many surfaces, and I believe the illustration is a bit more refined to specialise in fine art, so for it to be grainy, I am wondering if your pressure is a bit too low for your reduction? At higher pressures, up to 60psi, it is possible it would look grainy because at that pressure you are getting large amounts of overspray. Is it mostly at the edges? At 20psi I would be going for around 5 reducer to 1 paint (it's close to my base mix for my eclipse which is .35 nozzle), and adjust from there if needed, depending on colour, conditions etc. Using my micron, I start at a 10 to one mixture, at around 10 psi.

I have never had issues with the reducer, it really is an awesome product, and when you're mixture is right, gives amazing flow, virtually no tip dry, and makes cleanup a breeze because you don't get clogs etc. The 'going chunky in the cup' that jagardn mentioned, I have had happen once, and it was with moss green too. It turned out to be old stock, and I was able to get it replace. Hopefully that is not what is happening to you.

The "spray out of the bottle paints" are based on guns with .5 nozzles at up to 40psi (if I remember rightly). I think playing around with your ratios will really help - they are different for everyone, so you just need to find what works best for you.

 

[Simon]

While I don't use createx illustration, I do use createx Wicked, and the W500 (which is the same as the 4012) and it lays on as smooth as satin. I'm too impatient to wait for the "cooking" time too, and so never bother, though I have heard that is supposed to help.

The Wicked is an all rounder for many surfaces, and I believe the illustration is a bit more refined to specialise in fine art, so for it to be grainy, I am wondering if your pressure is a bit too low for your reduction? At higher pressures, up to 60psi, it is possible it would look grainy because at that pressure you are getting large amounts of overspray. Is it mostly at the edges? At 20psi I would be going for around 5 reducer to 1 paint (it's close to my base mix for my eclipse which is .35 nozzle), and adjust from there if needed, depending on colour, conditions etc. Using my micron, I start at a 10 to one mixture, at around 10 psi.

I have never had issues with the reducer, it really is an awesome product, and when you're mixture is right, gives amazing flow, virtually no tip dry, and makes cleanup a breeze because you don't get clogs etc. The 'going chunky in the cup' that jagardn mentioned, I have had happen once, and it was with moss green too. It turned out to be old stock, and I was able to get it replace. Hopefully that is not what is happening to you.

The "spray out of the bottle paints" are based on guns with .5 nozzles at up to 40psi (if I remember rightly). I think playing around with your ratios will really help - they are different for everyone, so you just need to find what works best for you.

Thx for your help Squish, but i did some tests this morning before work with other colors and reduce them with water instead of HP reducer. It helps alot..but the blk and wht are still very grainy. I even try them with my Ecplise and the results are still the same. I found out that my Infinity is having a Air Valve issue, because the difference in pressure between the 2 are not comparable. I tought i had compressor problems at first but after trying my Eclipse with the same pressure, i almost killed my rommate's dog. So now, im stuck with 2 problems! Lol! So yeah.. Maybe the blk and wht were too old..
I'll try to get in touch with chicagoAB supplies to see if they can refound me the bottles i havent use or if they can exchange them with comart or Golden

 

[Simon]

So... Anything i gotta know about Comart ? Do they flow smooth as the Golden Series? ( not the high fluids, i havent try them yet!)

 

[basepaint]

I use both com-art and golden and the golden is a slight bit thicker then com-art bur after reducing I can't see any diff. in the two spraying wise,The com-art erases and scratch's better thou.

 

[Simon]

I use both com-art and golden and the golden is a slight bit thicker then com-art bur after reducing I can't see any diff. in the two spraying wise,The com-art erases and scratch's better thou.

Thx mate! I think i'll comart a try! Especially if erasing is something i can do with it. My first paint was Golden, not the high fluids tho,,dunno if it stull as good as the old one. Neway, i have to send my infinity on repair at their u.s. division, i have an air valve problem.. I'll order a bottle or 2 of comart and golden hf when it come back!

 

[Basstrack238]

I haven't had any issues with the 4012 reducer. I really like it with createx, wicked or auto air, but i tried it with some old faskolor white that I had and it just gummed up the whole works. I had to tear the whole unit down to clean all that goop out. Lesson learned.....

 

[hamaf]

I don't know why they are still advertising this "straight out of the bottle" thing. Even Illustration paint is way too thick and grainy to do any fine art straight out of the bottle. Maybe it will be fine if painting a wall mural with a 0.8 mini gun. From my experience it goes like this: Wicked: straight out of the bottle with 1.8-2.0 primer gun at 40-60psi, Wicked Detail and Createx Illustration straight out of the bottle with 1.3-1.4 base gun at 40 psi. It is possible tho, that all the stock here is too old and gone bad. I don't think they sell alot of paint here. On the other hand, Com-Art works everytime.

 

[jagardn]

I don't know why they are still advertising this "straight out of the bottle" thing. Even Illustration paint is way too thick and grainy to do any fine art straight out of the bottle. Maybe it will be fine if painting a wall mural with a 0.8 mini gun. From my experience it goes like this: Wicked: straight out of the bottle with 1.8-2.0 primer gun at 40-60psi, Wicked Detail and Createx Illustration straight out of the bottle with 1.3-1.4 base gun at 40 psi. It is possible tho, that all the stock here is too old and gone bad. I don't think they sell alot of paint here. On the other hand, Com-Art works everytime.

Dru Blair would disagree. I've been to a few of his classes and he uses little to no reduction. His techniques use almost no freehand, so reductions are not that critical.