Illustration Colors problems..

[Ronald art]

Dru Blair would disagree. I've been to a few of his classes and he uses little to no reduction. His techniques use almost no freehand, so reductions are not that critical.

the illustration paint is developed to suite Dru's needs and as you stated he is not a free hand painter and with his buffered paint techniques he multi layers his paint to get max saturation so I can see why the illustration paint wont work for people like me who dont work with opaque paints and mainly use freehand techniques

 

[jagardn]

the illustration paint is developed to suite Dru's needs and as you stated he is not a free hand painter and with his buffered paint techniques he multi layers his paint to get max saturation so I can see why the illustration paint wont work for people like me who dont work with opaque paints and mainly use freehand techniques

I reduce the hell out of them. Unless using full saturation on an opaque, like Dru teaches. My minimum reduction is still usually 1:1 even for dark/heavily saturated areas.
I actually prefer that CI requires a lot of reduction for my techniques. It makes my paint last a long time. Most times one or two drops of paint reduced fills almost an entire 2ml cup

 

[JackEb]

im confused, ..... (not hard)
Illustration paints are transparent, even the white.... but you're saying Dru uses opaques and the illustration system was created for his methodology

 

[jagardn]

im confused, ..... (not hard)
Illustration paints are transparent, even the white.... but you're saying Dru uses opaques and the illustration system was created for his methodology

White paint is always opaque. If a you spray a paint over a portion of your painting and it covers it, the paint is not transparent.
Dru calls them Buffered Colors, but a good percentage of the paint is white making them opaque. There is no such thing as transparent white.

 

[JackEb]

I'm not trying to argue the point just trying to understand why the illustration range is so much more 'see through' than those branded as opaque.

I've tried covering a mistake with illustration white before and got very little noticeable difference after 5 passes (very little reduction in the cup) , it may have done eventually but the idea of having to use 20 - 30 passes to complete what Etac opaque white would do in one pass doesn't make sense
so would it be better to say that the illustrations are just not as opaque as some ?

 

[jagardn]

I'm not trying to argue the point just trying to understand why the illustration range is so much more 'see through' than those branded as opaque.

I've tried covering a mistake with illustration white before and got very little noticeable difference after 5 passes (very little reduction in the cup) , it may have done eventually but the idea of having to use 20 - 30 passes to complete what Etac opaque white would do in one pass doesn't make sense
so would it be better to say that the illustrations are just not as opaque as some ?

Createx Illustration is very highly pigmented. Were your paints very reduced? I generally get better coverage with CI than ETAC.

 

[JackEb]

I didn't think so, only 1:5 (paint:reducer) is my average reduction

 

[jagardn]

I didn't think so, only 1:5 (paint:reducer) is my average reduction

I'd have to do a test with both paints at 5:1, but I would guess that the CI would cover faster. They tend to have higher pigmentation than ETAC.

 

[JackEb]

I currently use Etac FX Opaque Titanium White rather than CI if I need a good 'solid' white, so it will be interesting to see what your results are.
I'll try the same thing in the next few days and note what reduction I use on the CI, I don't reduce the Etac

 

[AndreZA]

All tech specs on anything are on brand new products in laboratory conditions. If anything is different at your shop/studio then the manufacturer can just blame that and walk away. I wonder how it will work in my studio at almost a mile above sea level.

The red is also opaque because you can not buffer red.

 

[Amra]

White paint is always opaque. If a you spray a paint over a portion of your painting and it covers it, the paint is not transparent.
Dru calls them Buffered Colors, but a good percentage of the paint is white making them opaque. There is no such thing as transparent white.

What's really weird, and perhaps even more confusing, is that createx actually sells a Transparent White and a Transparent Black...

http://www.createxcolors.com/products/airbrushcolors/transparent/index.html

Transparent White - 5131
http://www.createxcolors.com/products/airbrushcolors/transparent/index.html#prettyPhoto[]/26/

Transparent Black - 5132
http://www.createxcolors.com/products/airbrushcolors/transparent/index.html#prettyPhoto[]/27/

 

[jagardn]

What's really weird, and perhaps even more confusing, is that createx actually sells a Transparent White and a Transparent Black...

http://www.createxcolors.com/products/airbrushcolors/transparent/index.html

Transparent White - 5131
http://www.createxcolors.com/products/airbrushcolors/transparent/index.html#prettyPhoto[]/26/

Transparent Black - 5132
http://www.createxcolors.com/products/airbrushcolors/transparent/index.html#prettyPhoto[]/27/

They likely have extra transparent base in them. Making them more transparent than the standard white/black.
There really can't be transparent white, the pigments are opaque and will cover anything. It takes some more layers, but it will cover.

 

[GregStith]

I think I'm missing something in this post. It seems From some responses that CI are believed to be opaque but they are listed as transparent on their website other than white that it states is opaque.

 

[Amra]

They likely have extra transparent base in them. Making them more transparent than the standard white/black.
There really can't be transparent white, the pigments are opaque and will cover anything. It takes some more layers, but it will cover.

Yeah, Im sure thats what it is, but it can be confusing to new players.

I always assumed that the pigments themselves were all essentially opaque, and their opacity was based primarily on the binder/base used. Strong colors, such as white and black, and to some extent blue, would simply require less layers to reach saturation than others colors. Not sure if that makes sense.

 

[odeniz]

I bought a "5051 - Illustration Black" for my first airbrush paint, but it's totally disappointment. I chose this because wanted out of the bottle usage without reducing. Result is very grainy and a lot of tip dry problem with my 0.3mm HP-CH.

 

[jagardn]

I bought a "5051 - Illustration Black" for my first airbrush paint, but it's totally disappointment. I chose this because wanted out of the bottle usage without reducing. Result is very grainy and a lot of tip dry problem with my 0.3mm HP-CH.

Most paints aren't good for spraying straight out of the bottle. The closest ones are ETAC EFX and Com-Art. Unless I'm doing full coverage on an area, I always reduce Createx Illustration.
You can reduce the graininess by upping your air pressure, but it generally causes more tip dry.

 

[Mr.Micron]

I bought a "5051 - Illustration Black" for my first airbrush paint, but it's totally disappointment. I chose this because wanted out of the bottle usage without reducing. Result is very grainy and a lot of tip dry problem with my 0.3mm HP-CH.

Well with out knowing anything about you . ..
How about a proper introduction ? you can find that section here http://www.airbrushforum.org/introductions/
Even urethane has to be reduced to go through an airbrush unless you are using a large nozzle set up like .5 .65. or .7
So mainly it comes down to learn you paint of choice (brand and type) As Jeff stated Etac EFX and com-art are about the only two that you can just about shoot every color out the bottle.
Golden high flow, Wicked and even as thin as spectra tex is they all need reduction . It also depends on what type of coverage you are going for is how much extra reduction may be needed.
But pop on over to the introduction section and introduce yourself..

 

[odeniz]

Thank you very much for comments, i will try with reducer tomorrow.

 

[odeniz]

Hi, i use w500 (I wrote wrong in the picture) reducer but my stokes always start with overspray. I get the same result with homemade reducer.

HP-CH 0.3 mm , 35-40 psi.

 

[AndreZA]

Can't see the picture. But for reduced Illustration that pressure is pretty high.