My experience with a knockoff airbrush

[JCD]

I ordered a knockoff of a Micron cmc plus with .2 .3 and .5mm nozzles/needles "made by Point Zero"
Prior to my purchase I contacted them to see if parts were available, I was told yes needles, nozzles, needle packing and o rings were all avaiable.

I bought it from Mix Wholesale through Amazon for 28.49$ after my discount. 5% off for orders over 25$ free shipping as well.

Mine arrived missing the .5mm nozzle and needle.

I looked it over well and found the nozzle to be as perfectly centered as my eye could tell, I thought this is probably a keeper.

The air cap had some burrs from machining so I cleaned those out.

The needles, while advertised as finely finished, were what I consider rough as corncobs and produced tip dry within seconds of spraying.

I polished the needles, rocker and mating surface as well as lapped the needles to their nozzles.

Wow what a difference the trigger is smooth as glass and tip dry is almost a thing of the past as long as I reduce me paint properly.

I'm really impressed with the gun but wanted my .5 needle/nozzle so I contacted the seller and was told the .5mm needle was installed in the gun. (the description said the .2 was installed)

I told them the .2 should have been in there but either way I was missing one, the .5 or the .2

I was told the sizes were marked and to check, I found nothing, so I informed them no marks on needles, air cap, nozzles or nozzle cap.

I was then thanked for checking and they would ship out both a .5 and .2 no charge.

The following day I get an email stating they are out of the .2 nozzle/needle and are waiting on a delivery.

Later that day I'm praticing with the gun and the trigger breaks, (the pin holding the pivoting piece snapped on one side where it was poorly assembled.

I informed Mix Wholesale about the broken tirgger and I get an email back saying instead of sending me the missing parts and a new trigger it would be easier if they just sent me a whole new gun at no charge for the gun or shipping and to keep the first gun for parts.

Since it was a "parts gun" I decided to see if the trigger was repairable, It took a while and some work but I ened up fixing the trigger, works better than when new.

So I got the new gun and it is also missing the .5mm nozzle and needle and the .2mm won't spray.

I found black paint in the nozzle cap filling in the taper around the hole even though the hole was clear.

After cleaning the dried paint out and polishing the needle the new gun performs extremely well. I'll have to finish the rest of the gun and I expect it to be as capable and a pleasure to use as the first.

Conclussion: These guns are like kits if you can do some of the finish work ie: troubleshooting, deburring, sanding, lapping and polishing you have yourself (in my opinion) a very very nice gun, far and away better than my ability to use it.

I'm amazed at how fine the atomization and tight the pattern of the spray, works with a few drops of paint and easy to clean.

I won't be surprised if Mix Wholesale sends me the .5mm nozzle and needle but even if they don't its hard to complain when I got two guns, 4 needles with air cap/nozzle assemblies, 2 QD's, 2 barbed hose connectors and nozzle wrenches for 28.49 delivered.

Those of you who have a knockoff brush sitting around unused should try polishing it up, it just may surprise you.

Jim

 

[WisconsinGreenhorn]

what a hassle though

I ordered a knockoff of a Micron cmc plus with .2 .3 and .5mm nozzles/needles "made by Point Zero"
Prior to my purchase I contacted them to see if parts were available, I was told yes needles, nozzles, needle packing and o rings were all avaiable.

I bought it from Mix Wholesale through Amazon for 28.49$ after my discount. 5% off for orders over 25$ free shipping as well.

Mine arrived missing the .5mm nozzle and needle.

I looked it over well and found the nozzle to be as perfectly centered as my eye could tell, I thought this is probably a keeper.

The air cap had some burrs from machining so I cleaned those out.

The needles, while advertised as finely finished, were what I consider rough as corncobs and produced tip dry within seconds of spraying.

I polished the needles, rocker and mating surface as well as lapped the needles to their nozzles.

Wow what a difference the trigger is smooth as glass and tip dry is almost a thing of the past as long as I reduce me paint properly.

I'm really impressed with the gun but wanted my .5 needle/nozzle so I contacted the seller and was told the .5mm needle was installed in the gun. (the description said the .2 was installed)

I told them the .2 should have been in there but either way I was missing one, the .5 or the .2

I was told the sizes were marked and to check, I found nothing, so I informed them no marks on needles, air cap, nozzles or nozzle cap.

I was then thanked for checking and they would ship out both a .5 and .2 no charge.

The following day I get an email stating they are out of the .2 nozzle/needle and are waiting on a delivery.

Later that day I'm praticing with the gun and the trigger breaks, (the pin holding the pivoting piece snapped on one side where it was poorly assembled.

I informed Mix Wholesale about the broken tirgger and I get an email back saying instead of sending me the missing parts and a new trigger it would be easier if they just sent me a whole new gun at no charge for the gun or shipping and to keep the first gun for parts.

Since it was a "parts gun" I decided to see if the trigger was repairable, It took a while and some work but I ened up fixing the trigger, works better than when new.

So I got the new gun and it is also missing the .5mm nozzle and needle and the .2mm won't spray.

I found black paint in the nozzle cap filling in the taper around the hole even though the hole was clear.

After cleaning the dried paint out and polishing the needle the new gun performs extremely well. I'll have to finish the rest of the gun and I expect it to be as capable and a pleasure to use as the first.

Conclussion: These guns are like kits if you can do some of the finish work ie: troubleshooting, deburring, sanding, lapping and polishing you have yourself (in my opinion) a very very nice gun, far and away better than my ability to use it.

I'm amazed at how fine the atomization and tight the pattern of the spray, works with a few drops of paint and easy to clean.

I won't be surprised if Mix Wholesale sends me the .5mm nozzle and needle but even if they don't its hard to complain when I got two guns, 4 needles with air cap/nozzle assemblies, 2 QD's, 2 barbed hose connectors and nozzle wrenches for 28.49 delivered.

Those of you who have a knockoff brush sitting around unused should try polishing it up, it just may surprise you.

Jim

 

[HCP-draggin]

I'll be looking forward to regular updates.

Anybody want to start a pool to guess how long this lasts?

 

[airbrushingferret]

After my lousy nightmare beginning with air brushing and if I do continue which is questionable I will only use well known air brushes and only the ones I can replace the needle bearing . If I had to guess there's ging to be a problem soon

 

[RebelAir]

LOL, I used a knock off for over a year, never cleaned it and it served as my detail gun quite well till I got replacement parts for my other fave..But the post does explain why a lot of us are againts them, its not that they cant spray or spray well, (Thats hit and miss but many do work well enough) its because they just haven't been machined well or out of half decent material and all those little things that make a brand name the best option (Like polishing) are done out of the box (normally)..But for me my time is valuable so spending half the day on making a $20 airbrush work, its cheaper in the longrun to buy an $80 one that is better quality LOL..

 

[JCD]

HCP how often do you want an update? Here is the first one, Mix Wholesale is sending me the .5mm needle and nozzle (no charge)

Airbrushingferret the needle bearing is replaceable and available.

Reb I agree wholeheartedly but in my case I have time and the tools to do the job but money is in short supply so this was the best option for me.

It would be nice if I could find someone close with a high end gun to compare it.

Jim

 

[Squishy]

This in an interesting one Jim. In my experience they are poorly made, but you have taken the time to put the extra work in to get it set up right. (Fettling around is not my forte, and I would stuff it up, ! so that's me out, but I know that many people are handy and could do this) So, it will be interesting to see how long it/the parts last, whether it continues to perform, and whether it will be cost effective in the long run. The couple I bought when I first started out where not only badly machined, but made of inferior materials, and so broke or damaged easily, needles and nozzles were very soft, and o-rings poorly fitting (most decent brushes use teflon now so rarely need replacing due to swelling etc), and threads not air tight, But, you can get lucky and get one that works ok. You don't usually get good customer support and spares aren't always available, but if you have someone that is doing that, and will replace parts, then who knows. It is still a bit hit and miss for me, and, as I found out to my cost, really slowed down my learning process having to fight to get an inferior product to work consistently, and wondering if it was just me not doing something right. When I shelled out for my Iwata HP-CS (which I am still using 2 1/2 years on), all that went away, and I felt the first 4 or 5 months of my ABing life had just been wasted time, and what I had spent on the cheap guns (plural because the first one lasted about 3 weeks) was just wasted money. But that's just my experience.

IMO it's not that cheap knock offs don't work, it's that they don't last long, don't perform consistantly, and aren't reliable. But it may be you are onto something that will work out for you. I just wonder if in 10 years you will still be using the same brush, and if not how much will you have spent in that time, compared to the cost of buying a well made branded brush in the first instance.

 

[HCP-draggin]

HCP how often do you want an update? Here is the first one, Mix Wholesale is sending me the .5mm needle and nozzle (no charge)

Airbrushingferret the needle bearing is replaceable and available.

Reb I agree wholeheartedly but in my case I have time and the tools to do the job but money is in short supply so this was the best option for me.

It would be nice if I could find someone close with a high end gun to compare it.

Jim

Keep updating whenever anything interesting happens. This shouldn't take too long by my experience. As you figured out, the poor performance of those brushes is due, more or less, to sloppy manufacturing. That part, if you have the time and tools, you CAN fix at home. At least to a respectable amount, anyway.

The other reason you can buy one for $30 is that they use the cheapest materials they can. This, you can't fix at home. When the needle bearing goes (which won't take too long) you MIGHT be able to replace it with one from an Iwata CM-C. That the chinese copied the micron down to that level is pretty doubtful, though. If you can't replace it, and the airbrush won't work without it, you might have an airbrush that will last as long as your needle packing.
The nozzle are made out of cheap steel or brass, and are too soft. They probably won't crack so much as they'll stretch, though.

If I had a nickle for every cheap, POS ebay airbrush I have bought and modified, I'd have enough to buy at least another micron knock-off. . When I suggest to people that spending extra on good equipment is a good strategy, it's not because (or not entirely, anyway) of political views, my feeling on China ignoring trade laws, etc. It's because I tried what you're trying. It doesn't work like that. If it did, everyone here would own a $30 Chinese airbrush.

 

[JCD]

Considering I've already contacted the importer and confirmed that the needle bearing is replaceable and available I don't really see a problem there or I could chuck up a piece of teflon on my lathe and turn my own.

I doubt spring pressure will stretch the nozzle and as with the needle bearing these are also available.

If I can refrain from using my airbrush as an impromptu hammer I expect it will have a long service life.

I will occasionally post updates on the status of the brushes.

So far I am thrilled with my purchase, now I only need to retrain my brain to be an artist.

I do agree with you and Reb that for most people buying a better brush is the best option.

Jim

 

[jagardn]

I bought a VEDA a while back just to try it out. I figured what the hell, its a cheap backup if I ever need it. My experience was pretty similar to yours, if I screwed around with it long enough and sealed everything with beeswax and got the nozzle at just the right tension, it didn't work that bad.
If I compare it to my Iwata's and H&S brushes...not even close. My real problem was consistency. Once I get my reductions and PSI right my high end brushes are rock solid. If i go to pull an ultra fine dagger stroke, they will work every time(minus tip dry problems). No matter what I did with the VEDA, I just couldn't get it to work that way.
I hope it does work out for you, for me....not so much. I still have the VEDA, but notice that I don't really advertise it in my signature. I just never need the hassles it gave me when trying to get it to work consistently.

 

[Squishy]

........I doubt spring pressure will stretch the nozzle and as with the needle bearing these are also available.........

So far I am thrilled with my purchase, now I only need to retrain my brain to be an artist

Jim

I found with the soft metal of the nozzle that it flared after a short time, just from inserting the needle all the way, and from cleaning, even though I was super gentle. Then when replacing a nozzle it snapped off, leaving the threaded part behind, and when I got that out and replaced the nozzle, the new thread damaged while screwing it in (you may not have this kind of set up, so may not apply). Just a heads up to a couple of pitfalls I had, and hope you can avoid.

Anyway, now you are set up, and can enjoy getting stuck in to retraining your brain! My brain needs a memory dump, it is full of useless info, that pops up at random times and is of no use to man nor beast. That's my excuse for not being able to do all the airbrushing stuff I wish I could do, and I'm sticking to it!

 

[WisconsinGreenhorn]

When I suggest to people that spending extra on good equipment is a good strategy, it's not because (or not entirely, anyway) of political views, my feeling on China ignoring trade laws, etc. It's because I tried what you're trying. It doesn't work like that. If it did, everyone here would own a $30 Chinese airbrush.

China puts a 30 percent tariff on imports from the USA... and we put ZERO percent tariff on Chinese goods. You hit the nail on the head HCP. If we put a 30 percent tariff on chinese goods we could fund free education for all who wanted it and then some!

Jag said something about beeswax as a sealer, could someone clarify if this is what you use to lube a needle?

 

[Squishy]

Jag said something about beeswax as a sealer, could someone clarify if this is what you use to lube a needle?

I think Jag means that you would use it on any threads to stop leaks.

 

[jagardn]

I think Jag means that you would use it on any threads to stop leaks.

Exactly. Usually the most effected piece is the head assembly/air cap. Consistent airflow across the nozzle is necessary for good performance.

 

[PatIvers]

I started off using the Badger knockoff's from Harbor Freight, and they weren't to bad. At that time, not knowing anything about airbrushes except for what comon sense dictated, when I first took it out of the pakage, broke it down and examined it, the first thing I noticed was that I could use the needle for a rasp file. I actually put grooves in my finger nails dragging them down the length of the needle, it was that bad. I knew that couldn't be right, so I polished it out smooth as chrome. It actually worked pretty well after that. I traded some work for a Eclipse HP-BCS, and the difference was amazing. Having not learned my lesson, I bought a Master similar to a CMC+ so I could add fine details to my paintings. What a mistake that was. Even after making all of the needed improvements to it to make it decent, it still wouldn't make a fine line, the tip wouldn't stay centered around the needle. It might have been fine for making tiny feathers or something. It would make a fairly fine line with blowout along one side of it. I finally got smart and bought a CMC from a friend, and haven't looked back since.

 

[JCD]

Well that's a bummer about the nozzle, Squishy thanks for the heads up I'll start making a loupe check on it.

I don't agree with some of our countries policies either but one buys what one feels he can afford WisconsinGreenhorn, hey did you get your gun spraying paint again? What was the cause?

Thanks for letting me know Pat, I took a chance ordering, checking the nozzle and cap alignment figuring I could send it back if it didn't look well centered, I got "lucky" and they both were as dead center as I could ascertain.
I am curious as to what is considered a fine line. How do you measure the line?
Lol I'd be fine with tiny feathers that's far better than I can paint right now. I need a smiley that stands for art newb right here.

I have to say that is disappointing to hear about the soft nozzles I have to remember to treat them gently and get what I can out of them.

I appreciate all the input, I'll keep everyone updated as to their durability and performance.

Thanks, Jim

 

[Nada]

A fine line is about what a mechanical pencil can produce... not that I am that smooth at it.

 

[JCD]

Update: My brush started to have problems, pulsing, poor spray pattern and finally bubbles in the cup.

I cleaned it within an inch of its life but didn't help.

Using my loupe I checked the tiny o ring on the nozzle and it appeared to be in bad shape.

I removed the o ring and with great difficulty managed to put a very small strip of teflon tape twisted into a "rope" in its place.

The brush no longer pulses, it sprays great and no bubbles in the cup.

The only thing I don't like about the teflon tape is it pushes the nozzle slightly to one side as I didn't get it uniformly around the nozzle.

Time to hunt down tiny o rings.

Aside from the o ring the brush is working like a champ, no nozzle deformation or any other problem to report.

Jim

 

[HCP-draggin]

Well, that's 13 days since your first thread. Do you feel like you got $30 out of it?

 

[JCD]

Well, that's 13 days since your first thread. Do you feel like you got $30 out of it?

Without a doubt, one tiny o ring being deformed certainly doesn't make it junk.

I probably tightened it down too much, look at the others on this forum with similar problems with their name brand guns.

It works so well with the teflon tape substitute (I can't tell any difference) I doubt I'll get another o ring.

Jim